Gwendolyn N. (Cain) Perschbacher
- May 27, 1928
- at home in Rice County, Kansas
- delivered by Dr. Beyer
- married Ray Joseph Perschbacher (b.3/3/30) on May 28, 1950
Children:
- Kirby Ray Perschbacher, born May 29, 1952
- Mike Trent Perschbacher, born November 30, 1953
- Ruth Ellen Perschbacher, born April 14, 1955
- Mark Wendell Perschbacher, born November 8, 1960
Father:
- Prentice Hartford Cain
- born January 7, 1908
- in Rice County, Kansas
- died September 17, 1972
Mother:
- Ruth Emma Catheryn (Reents) Cain
- born June October 1, 1909
- in Holyrood, Kansas
interviewed November 6, 2003 by Kathy Berg
This is Kathy Berg at the Salida Regional Library with Gwen Perschbacher. Today is Thursday, Nov. 6, 2003, at about 4 o'clock, give or take.
KATHY BERG: Gwen, if you could just give us a brief history of you and your family; where you were born, where you were brought up and then of course when you got to Salida, which is what we're really looking for.
GWEN PERSCHBACHER: OK. I was born in Rice County Kansas, on a farm and I was born May 24th, 1928. my parents were Prentice Hartford Cain and Ruth Emma Catherine Cain; Ruth Emma Catherine Reents Cain. And we moved to Mitchell, which was a town mainly with dogs and cats, about 100, maybe less. And my Grandfather Reents owned the only grocery store, in that building with the Post Office and the barber shop. And, my father farmed for awhile and then he went to work for the American Salt plant in Lyons. And when I was in second grade we moved to the country between Sterling and Lyons Kansas and I went to Union II School. I had gone to the Mitchell school before that. I should say I didn't go much because I had Rheumatic Fever, and so I went about 3 months my first grade and my second grade I missed about three months. And in a short period in my second grade we lived in Lyons and I rode the train back and forth to school, which was seven miles, and the times coincided with school hours. And then when I was_____, I went the rest of the time in Mitchell until I was in eighth grade and the middle of the year we moved to Lyons and I went to the Jr. High there and half of my Freshman year. And then in November of 1942 we moved to Climax, CO. My Dad was already out here (Colorado), and because he was draft age, my Mom thought he might be drafted, so she wanted to come out. And he told us that all the housing that he could find was a cabin about four miles below Climax, which had no modern conveniences. And I mean nothing modern by the fact we got our water out of the creek and we had an outside toilet. We had coal burning stoves, wood and coal burning stoves, and we had gas lamps and kerosene lamps. And where we lived we had an inside bathroom and all the conveniences of the modern day. So it was quite an experience for us. My sister was about two years old, and she, Mom and I came out by ourselves, and we had the car loaded with stuff. We had no mattresses on the top of our car however, which was not unusual in those days.
KATHY BERG: Do you remember what kind of a car you drove?
GWEN PERSCHBACHER: It was a Ford. I think probably '39, maybe, I'm not sure, '37 or '39 Ford. And actually we were following (the first soldiers) from Colorado Springs to Climax, or Leadville, they were moving into Camp Hale then from Fort Carson, and we got in that line and we stayed in that line most of the way. My Mother had never driven in the mountains before. And she was an excellent driver, but she didn't drive for quite awhile after we got here because she, she realized what she'd just done. And I went to Climax to (Max Schott) school, half of my freshman year and my sophomore year.
KB: Do remember how big Climax was at that time?
GP: I don't know how big Climax itself was. A lot of people lived in Leadville, a few lived in Frisco. And they had a boarding house, and a lot of men lived in the boarding house. But I really don't know how big it was. The school was very small.
KB: How many kids and teachers?
GP: Well, there were very few teachers. I think I had about five teachers probably altogether and one of them was the Superintendent. I think they could make more at mining than they could at teaching, probably. And I frankly didn't think the teachers were very good. They had no discipline and I was used to a lot of discipline, well, it seemed like the kids behaved better, I don't know. And then I, we moved to Climax itself in March of that year. We were there in the cabin from November to March, and we moved into a duplex, which was very nice. And, lots of snow. That's the thing that I've really noticed a change in this whole valley is the amount of snow that piles up. We used to go to Camp Hale now and then because there was a young man stationed there that we had known from Lyons. And we could watch the latest movies. And that was always fun. And then someone came to ski in Climax and I usually brought some of them home and Mom always had a pie or something special for 'em. Then my sophomore year I also went at Climax (Max Schott School). And then my, I knew I was going to go into nurses, nursing school and I had to have Latin and I had to have Chemistry. And they didn't teach Latin at Climax, so my parents arranged with an Aunt and Uncle of mine for me to live there (with them) and work for my board and room. And, so I went back to Lyons two years. I rode the train back-and-forth at Christmas. I usually came home Christmas, that was the only vacation that I came home. And then in the summer I came home. So that's why I lived in Colorado and graduated from Lyons High School.
KB: Ok, Now I understand.
GP: And, then after that why I went into nursing at Denver General, which was called The Colorado Training School for Nurses. And it was the first nursing school this side of the Mississippi. And, Denver General was a, quite an experience to say the least. And, we worked six days, well, we went to school about six weeks just to get the initial part, how to give a bath, how to take a temperature, you know, basic kinds of things. And then we worked full time and went to school also. We worked a lot of nights, a lot of 3-11's. And, we worked six days a week. One of the biggest snowstorms they ever had in Denver, they had in November of '46. I think they had one recently that maybe beat it a little bit. But like snow does in Colorado leaves very quickly, if it's the right time of year.
KB: Yes with the sunshine.
GP: There were 22 women that started with me, and there were 10 of us that graduated, and, actually there were 12, but two of them came, well 3 of them actually came from another class. Either they'd gotten married or they had a baby or something and then they came back. And, that's one thing about Denver General, they took all nationalities, and also, you could be married, and that was something. A lot of girls would get married two months before they were to graduate and if they were found out they didn't graduate. So, Denver General was not that strict. However, we did wear black hose and black shoes and a striped uniform. That was our first uniform, was called a Probie Uniform.
KB: Probie?
GP: Probie. And most people wondered what we were doing there because that was a uniform they hadn't seen before. Then Colorado University took over our school when we were about half way through. And, we only had two weeks vacation each year. It was year-round. And so that year they didn't want us to have any vacation, because they wanted to give us more (affiliations). Well, we managed to get one week. We rebelled.
KB: Do you remember what year it was?
GP: It was probably 1948. Mid 1948. And, but as a result of that we had some, what they called affiliations. We went to other hospitals. Went to Colorado General for outpatient, went to National Jewish for Tuberculosis. And I might say there were a lot of displaced persons from Europe there. Then we went to Children's for what they called Contagion. And a lot of polio then. Then we went to Visiting Nurse Service; went to Pueblo for Psych. And, as bad as Psych was in some ways, I think it beats people being on the street like they are today. It's very concerning to me about the mental health part of our health system. Then I graduated in 1949. And I went to work on Pediatrics. I really liked Pediatrics a lot. But, I had a very bad experience with a little girl that was burned. I don't know if you would remember, but sometimes people put kerosene on fires so they'd really go, and her father had done that and she had been there and it caught her on fire and she had terrible burns. She lived about a week. And, I don't think they ever controlled the pain. And, I know, ah remember the night she died, what a terrible experience it was because the father blamed the doctors. And all the kids, the, the ward was fixed with glass, from about oh like a wainscoting and then glass, and they all heard all of this. And you're trying to comfort them, and it was just, it was really a bad, bad situation. Anyway, then I decided that I would leave Denver General and I went home, called my parents and said I have decided to leave. My father wanted me to join the service and thank goodness I didn't I'd probably have ended up in Korea.
KB: Wait. He wasn't going to join the service.
GP: No, he didn't. But he thought it would be a good idea for me. That'd be a good way for me to get more education. But, they'd actually wanted me to go to college before I went (into nursing). And, what I found was most girls that had gone to college never finished nursing school at Denver General. And, that was kind of understandable in a way. Anyway, so also I was a good tax deduction for my parents. And so I quit two weeks before the first of January. And, we moved, I moved out of the dorm. I lived with two other graduates in a house on South Sherman in Denver. So we rode the trolley back-and-forth to Denver General. Anyway, then I went to Glenwood and I applied at a hospital that was where the swimming pool is now. And she (director of nursing) said well, most young girls don't like to come here, because there's no eligible men. So anyway that didn't deter me. I went to the next hospital, which was on the 3rd floor of a bank. It was a 22-bed hospital, and one Dr. ran the hospital. And they would have hired me that day, but it was during the Christmas break. And, so, I, I did go to work there the first of January. My recollection is that I made $150.00 dollars, and they took $10 dollars out for Blue Cross Blue Shield.
KB: A $150 dollars a month?
GP: A month. And we worked six days a week and we rotated shifts. We worked 2 weeks days, and then one 3-11, one week 3-11 and then one week nights.
KB: Do you remember the name of the hospital?
GP: Porter's.
KB: Porter's?
GP: And Dr. Nutting was the doctor that ran it, and interesting enough he had taken his Internship here, Externship I think they called it, at Salida Hospital. And, in fact, he just recently died at 100. And he was he was great to work for. We had a kitchen where we all ate, had a big round table and everybody sat down at noon and that's where we ate, unless you were busy. We all scrubbed in OR. In fact, we even poured ether, which we shouldn't have been, but we did. And, OB and Surgery in the same room.
KB: Because you weren't a Dr, is that why you shouldn't pour ether?
GP: No, nurses did pour ether then, but I hadn't had any specific training for that. And, and they did watch us close, and we didn't lose any patients. But, it was kinda scary. Ah. But they expected you to know how to do everything. And there wasn't a lot to do other than Surgery, OB, a few medications, and, and a lot of care and comfort I guess you'd say. And we only had one bathroom. And, everyone had a bed bath then. And, (let's see there was something else I was going to tell you) Oh, and I remember the narcotics were hid in the kitchen. We didn't even have 'em locked up. And we had a bad experience there with two nurses that came to work. And, Strickland who was the person that hired them, did the bookwork, she hired immediately cause we were always short of nurses. And they didn't last one shift, they were into the narcotics, and it was a bad scene. But, anyway, I worked there all the time I was in Glenwood. And, I really liked it. Dr. was very good. He liked to play cards for one thing. So when he came from the card playing, always if you were working 3-11, he came to check, or if it was later, you were on nights, to see if there was anything going on that he might be needed for. And we always knew where he was. He always kept you well informed where he was. Anyway we moved to Buena Vista then from Glenwood. Ray was an only child, and ah. We were married in Glenwood, I should say.
KB: You met him in Glenwood.
GP: I met him in Glenwood. And a friend of mine who was in nursing school with me came to Glenwood also. She also met her husband. So, we always laughed about Mrs. Sample saying that, you know, there weren't any eligible men. Well, we managed to find them.
KB: You found the two that were there.
GP: Right. Anyway, Ray, being an only child, his Dad was ill with Lupus. And they owned a grocery store in Buena Vista and they really needed him to come to Buena Vista to help. So that's what we did. I was really reluctant to do that. But, sometimes you don't have a lot of choices in situations like that. There was no doctor in Buena Vista then. There was a drugstore. And, people found out I was a nurse, and I was giving shots and drawing blood and doing that type of thing quite frequently.
KB: Home visits?
GP: Well, I did do home visits for drawing blood, because there was a doctor in Leadville that wanted that. And there was one, when I was pregnant, and I'd lost, I'd miscarried once, and they wanted me to go horseback up in the mountains and it was in the winter and Ray wouldn't let me go. Cause, he was afraid something might happen. Anyway, they did get a doctor later in Buena Vista, but that was after we had moved. And, we went, oh, and there was someone from Fort Carson, that they were stationed at Camp Hale, but a lot of them lived in Buena Vista, and she was pregnant.
KB: Do you remember what year you moved to Buena Vista?
GP: We moved there in September of '51. And, we stayed there until September '55 when we moved to Salida. In the meantime I had three children. And, we lived in nine different places, including a motel. Buena Vista, everything was for sale. And so when something sold we had to move. And one time we didn't have anyplace to move so we moved into a motel. And, in fact, I think about that a lot of times, because we had two couples with children come and visit us and I still, when I see the motel it looks like an outside toilet almost, it's so small.
KB: And they all stayed in the motel room?
GP: And they stayed with us. You never rented motel rooms. We were all too poor to do anything extravagant like that. And, I was pregnant with Mike at the time. We had to sleep in a 3/4 bed to get Kirby's crib in the bedroom. And then the bathroom was through, you had to go through the bedroom to the bathroom. And in the bathroom was an icebox which drained into the shower drain. And then we had a coal-burning stove in it too. That was my first real experience, cause my Mother never let me cook, so that was my first real experience in cooking on coal or wood and coal. Anyway, we moved to Salida in 1955. Actually, when I had Ruth in April of 1955, the Director of Nursing, who was Miss Vogelsburg talked to me about coming to work there. They always said that Directors of Nursing recruited nurses and then blamed them for not staying home and taking care of their children.
KB: So, you're talking about the hospital here?
GP: The Salida hospital. And they had gone to five days a week. So I started full time, but I found just getting a baby-sitter was a major problem. And Ray was working for New York Life then and traveled a lot, so, that didn't work out, so I went to work part-time. And sometimes that was very uncertain because thirty minutes before you needed to be to work, they called and wanted you to work. But, eventually, Mrs. Plewes, who lived across the alley from me, baby-sat for me.
KB: How do you spell that?
GP: PLEWES. Irene Plewes. And she would come at a minute's notice, and it was just, it was, I couldn't have had it any better. For one thing, she came to the house, which was, I didn't have to get three little ones ready to go to work. And, the hospital here, was oh, I don't know, it was more modern than the one that I'd worked in before.
KB: So, was it officially called The Salida hospital?
GP: It was Rio Grande. The Rio Grande still owned it then. And it was during my tenure there, and I can't tell you the year it was when it changed. And I worked there until 1970, off and on, I should say. Our oldest son had what's called legg perthes and was in a double hip spika cast for about two and a half years, so I didn't work during that time. And then, Ray had some serious eye problems and couldn't drive, so I didn't work during that time. And, I mostly worked on 2nd floor, which was basically surgery and OB. But sometimes we also had coronaries. And we had what they called a sun porch. And a lot of elderly people, which, well even some of the people we had as patients would be in a nursing home today. But the sun porch, most of those patients would, were, would be considered nursing home patients today.
KB: What was the sun porch like? Was it actually out on the porch?
GP: It was the hospital like, it had a corridor and then rooms on either side and at the end on like a “T” was the sun porch, lots of windows. And it kinda reminded you of the TB San.
KB: It sounds like it. But it was enclosed?
GP: Yes, it was enclosed. Uh huh. And we did admit patients there sometimes. In fact, I can remember having patients in the hall there because they just had an overflow of patients. First floor was medical, I worked very little down there. Part of the time, I was what they called 3-11 Supervisor. I worked a lot of 3-11 because it was real handy with children. And, then I worked as Director of Nursing for a very short time. It was supposed to be two weeks, ended up being considerably longer than that. And, ah,…. that was an experience that I don't want to have again. But, anyway, it was shortly after that that I decided that I wasn't going to, that I needed to quit and do something else. And, I did go back and taught the first Nurse Aid Classes there. And became friends with a lot of people, but I also got into trouble with one of the doctors over one of the people that I was training, and so that ended my career at Salida hospital. But I still have a lot of friends, in fact we have a nurse's luncheon once a month and a lot of those retired from the hospital.
KB: And don't you have some kind of a reunion of your classmates? There was a something in newspaper a couple months ago or last summer.
GP: Yes. Uh huh. We had the first class reunion in 1959, which was ten years after we graduated. And, my husband's doing some pictures now, and one of the, it's so different when we all had gloves, hat, purse, dresses. And now if we have our sweat shirts on and our sandals, why, we're happy.
KB: I hear you. Things have changed.
GP: Yes things have changed a lot. We still were wearing uniforms and caps when I left Salida hospital. And, in fact, I worked for mental health for awhile too. I kinda started that before I left Salida Hospital, they needed someone kinda like an intake person. And, that was a volunteer job actually, but. I always liked mental health. In fact, I always thought I might become a psychiatric nurse, but I didn't. Anyway, I did that for awhile. And then when the nursing home was built why I went out there thinking oh, I might go back to the hospital and I'd learn the new medications; well…..
KB: What was the name of the nursing home?
GP: Columbine Manor. And, in fact, I was with the group that worked to have a nursing home here, separate from the hospital, because they had had a nursing home at the hospital. And it was, I think there's a lounge there now and maybe medical records. I'm not real sure, because the hospital's been remodeled. In fact, I quit the day, the first remodeling happened after I went to work there, it was on July 1st, but I can't remember the year for sure, it wasn't '70, but before that because I'd gone back for the Nurse Aid classes. And, anyway, it was, it was not the best nursing home in the world at the hospital. They had no activities of any kind. And I just saw some things there I didn't like. And I also was hoping that a nursing home would be patterned after a home and not the medical model of a hospital. It's turned out, it's happened anyway, but that was certainly my hope when they, when I fought for them not to have it at the hospital.
KB: So about what year was it that Columbine was established?
GP: 1972 I believe….. And I think they had their open house on Mother's day of that year and I went to work in Oct. of that year. Again, I went to work part-time and within two weeks I was full time. And, Mr. & Mrs. Vandiver; he was the, the Administrator and she was the Director of Nursing. And they just devoted their life to the nursing home, they really did. They were there every day. Except, he went to Mexico to get his teeth. And they wanted me to be in charge; they both went. And the first day I was sick.
KB: To get his teeth?
GP: Uh huh. He had his teeth pulled down there cause it was a lot less expensive. And, a lot of people were doing that then. Anyway, and the medication room was about as big as a small closet, and I was sick to my stomach. So I would get real faint and I'd go outside and then I'd come back. I'd go in and out, in and out. Because I just couldn't let 'em down. I was the only nurse there, so. Anyway I got through that. And, I really enjoyed it there. And they left. And after they left I became the Director of Nursing and I was there about two more years.
KB: What years?
GP: I think that was '78 to '80……. And Leslie Meyer was one of the Administrators. And then, Farice Filbert was the next Administrator. And she was, she was a lab technician and actually she had been an Administrator of a hospital in Kansas. But she started as a nurse aid out there and ended up being the Administrator and she was just devoted to the place. And she was, I hated to leave her cause she was, hard to leave when someone you have that much respect for.
KB: Mmm Huh.
GP: But, anyway I did, and ah. Let's see what did I do next? I think then I was thinking about going to Del Norte, or working in a hospital that was smaller than Salida, maybe going back to work at the hospital. And, what I actually, I did work at Del Norte for about six months, I guess. And, it was a small hospital, and actually they were, I think really going broke. One of the Sisters ran that hospital. And, I told 'em, you know, I can go home anytime because that is the only place I have ever worked, in my whole career, where they had enough staff. I guess that's why they went broke.
KB: Oh dear.
GP: Anyway, they are building a new hospital I hear, over there. And then I worked as a traveling nurse in La Junta. I, you have to promise to work at least a month. And I told them I'd work a month to six weeks. And it was a very busy hospital. It reminded me a lot of Denver General. And, I worked nights. And they provide you a place to stay, which was interesting, but it was pretty overwhelming to me too, because at night you had to do everything. Everybody was traveling, nobody was local. And it's a very poor situation, I think, cause nobody knew the doctors. They hardly know the layout of the hospital.
KB: Was it because they couldn't get nurses?
GP: All the nurses they had from their local nurses were on day shift. And, which, I, I don't know whether they didn't pay enough to draw nurses or what. But, I did work with two traveling nurses that had done it a long time and I, I was very impressed with them. They really were excellent nurses. But it just wasn't for me.
KB: So, and all this time while you were traveling from Del Norte to La Junta, the family was still in Salida?
GP: Mmm Huh. The first time I ever lived by myself was when I went to Del Norte. I had lived with my parents, my grandparents. I'd lived with roommates. I'd lived with my husband and my family. And, it was really a nice break for Ray and I. We really enjoyed it. Because, I'd come home and he'd come down there when I had days off. And, and another thing, I could go to workshops and never feel I was denying the family of anything. So it was, and our youngest son was grown basically then, so it was, worked out.
KB: Yes, so it was Ok. What was it like raising three children in Salida in the……….
GP: The 50”s?
KB: The 50's and 60's ?
GP: Well, one thing. I think I told you before that you know, we went to the park to play. We rarely went to the park. We put the kids, picnics we usually had, we either had in our back yard or we had out in the hills. cause they liked to be out in the hills a lot. And we also had vacant lots behind our place, so they played baseball there and, and did all kinds of things in that vacant lot.
KB: Do remember the address?
GP: we lived at 932 “F”. And that house is still there. And I've been in it recently. We remodeled it, oh, when our youngest son was about two years old. And except for some changes in the bathroom they have done very little to it. It's just pretty much like it was then. Oh, they did build in the front porch. We had a front porch they built in.
KB: So you were across from Alpine Park?
GP: No. No. We were at 932 “F”, between 9th and 10th.
KB: Oh, yes, you were at 932, “F”, I forgot.
GP: That's all right. We lived there 27 years I guess. And it was hard to move, with four bedrooms. In fact I should tell you going back, how we happened to be in that house. When we moved from Buena Vista, we came to Salida and looked and I, the places that we looked at, one of them even had had chickens in it. But, the places they think are hard to find now, it wasn't any easier in the 50's. And so Ray's Aunt and Uncle lived in Salida, so we asked them to keep their eyes and ears open. And Ray's Aunt called, and this house, the man had committed suicide. Anyway, it was in an estate. And, I don't know whether she knew them or what, but she knew they wanted to rent it. So Ray talked to them and I said, well do they know we have three little kids? And he said yes. Anyway, it was totally furnished. And one room they wanted to keep, because the people by the name of Bopp had lived there and they were arrowhead hunters. And they, in fact I think those are on display, ah,… oh I can't think of it, they are in Colorado, near the border. Not Cortez, but over in that area.
KB: Dolores?
GP: It may be just across in New Mexico.
KB: Farmington?
GP: Farmington, I think maybe they're displayed in Farmington. Anyway, ah they had a beautiful china cupboard, and I remember I just felt they should just take it out, because I was afraid something might happen to it. And they took it out and gave it somebody else. And that's the house we ended up buying a year later, once the estate was settled. And it had a, a trash burner, what they called a trash burner in the kitchen, and a pot bellied stove in the living room. And that's the first thing we did, we got a furnace. A natural gas furnace. And, anyway Mack and Marmie Witty lived on the corner and they had lots of kids. So, I was worried about my kids getting out of the yard, so I had Ray put the latch on the outside of the gate, instead of the inside of the gate. But the Witty kids came over and opened it, but interesting enough they never went in the street, I never had any trouble with them. But, in Buena Vista there was rarely a car, and “F” street was not as busy as today, but it was a busier street. And, we had two apple trees, and I always remember telling the kids not to eat the green apples, they'd get the bellyache. They never did, they ate the apples anyway.
And, they all went to Longfellow. And when Kirby was in the cast, I had, Ray thought we needed another car so I could take him back-and-forth to school. Well, that was totally impractical. You know, you had to get him in the car, the wheelchair in the car, then get them both out. So I just took him back-and-forth in the wheelchair. I should tell you that he was home schooled for awhile. And it was on Valentine's Day, and he was in first grade, and the teacher said, ah invited, they invited him to the party. And he was all ready to go to the party and he got to the door and he didn't want to go. And I told him, well everybody was just looking forward to him and he had all his cards and everything. And, I realized then that there was one boy that he'd regularly seen, otherwise, except for his brother and sister he didn't see anybody to play with so much. And he loved baseball, so that was really hard for him. But, anyway, so he went to school that day, and when he came, when I went to pick him up the teacher said “is there any reason he can't come to school”? And I said, well I don't really know of any reason he can't. So from that day on, he went to school. And, the, he did have the measles I think one time. They did have to change his cast every three months, cause he was growing. And he, he was able to get on and off the toilet. And the kids, in fact the kids almost fought over getting him out on the playground. Then when he was in third grade, the old school, old Longfellow school was two-story. And in fact, I remember being pregnant with Mark and carrying him up two, you had to go up the stairs to get on the first floor and you had to go up another flight of stairs to get to Scout meeting. Only kindergarten, first and second were in the new Longfellow School. Anyway, Ray and I had gone to School Board and asked if it would be possible for them to put the 3rd grade in the new Longfellow school, which is much smaller than it is now. But that was the first one story building they built over there. And, so they did change it for us and I was really pleased about that, because it just made it so much easier for us. In fact, in January, that year he was out of the cast before that, he was out of the cast in December. And I remember a remark Ruth (his sister) made, she said; “You're sure tall Kirby, I didn't know you were so tall.”
KB: He was sitting down.
GP: Anyway, he walked. He walked. And you can't imagine what those legs looked like after being in a cast for 2 1/2 years. And before that he was on crutches. And, but that was a battle after that, because he wanted to use his crutches all the time, he didn't want to walk. So finally, we got him a bicycle. They didn't do any physical therapy then. And, I should have known better actually. But, anyway, he didn't break a leg on the bicycle, it did strengthen his legs, so it worked out really well. And the kids did really well in school. I think there was like 30 or 35 when Ruth was in 3rd grade. It was, they really were over crowded. And when Mark was in kindergarten, he was quite a bit younger than the other children, they had three sessions of Kindergarten. They would be like, take two hours, two hours and two hours, or something like that. And he didn't want to go to school to begin with, and it was really, and I made him change his clothes, which that was a bummer. Don't ever do that. Poor kid. And he did get sent home from school, when he was in kindergarten. And the teacher called me and she said he's coming home; she said, I don't really know what's wrong with him. He kissed one girl and took somebody else's 10-cent piece. Anyway, so I looked out, looking for him and here he comes down the walk.
KB: Forlorned? Of course discipline was different than.
GP: Poor kid. Well, he, pretty soon, he broke down crying, he felt pretty bad about it. But, anyway, that's family stuff, that's not Salida.
KB: Well, can you tell us something about oh, the different stores downtown, where you went shopping, where you went grocery shopping? What was around in the 50's and 60's that maybe we you know, we don't see now but maybe the building is still visible?
GP: Well there was White's Stationary and Book-Store, which I believe that building was torn down when they built the new First National Bank, which is now Pueblo Bank and Trust. And ah there was Gilbert's Store, which was all woman's clothes. And that was also on that same block, 200 block of “F” street on, going up from 1st St. it would be on the right-hand side. And, what else, well of course, Crews-Beggs is still there. And then across the street there was, I can't remember the name of that store, but where it, where it ended up being, I think, Public Service, although I read someplace where that had been a skating rink, just recently, or a rolling skating rink at one time. I think it was in the paper I read that.
KB: Hummm.
GP: But, I think there was a, a clothing store in there. And then there was Everybody's Store, which Mrs. Budd and her sister ran. And it was everybody's store, if there was anything you were looking for, they had it. Might take them awhile to find it, but they did.
KB: Clothes and hardware and everything?
GP: Well, they didn't have hardware, but any kind of clothes or sewing kind of things, or materials, all of that sort of thing.
KB: So did you do most of your shopping and living and entertainment and recreation in the area? Did you ever, I know nowadays a lot of people go to Colorado Springs or Denver for this or that. But everything was contained here?
GP: Yes. Rarely did we shop anyplace else. Occasionally in Pueblo, cause we did go to the eye doctor in Pueblo. But, in fact, this was kind-of a center for shopping for the surrounding area. Leadville did have some shopping area, but a lot of people from there came to Salida. A lot of people from the San Luis Valley, and then down the Arkansas Valley, they came here. So Salida was a pretty big, busy place, actually. And, there was City Market here. It was I don't know that it had any connection with the City Market's they have now.
KB: But that's what it was called, City Market? Where was that, do remember?
GP: A-Huh. It was where the Community Bank is now. And then, across the street where Dr. Lund's office is now, there was I want to say Firestone Store, but I may be wrong about that. And then there was a Montgomery Ward Store which was a catalog store, where it was a book store, now it's kind-of a gift shop on the corner of 2nd and “F”.
KB: Mmmm. Where Adventure Media, where that was?
GP: Ah, where Adventure Media was. And, Oh, that had a, that was a grocery store when we moved to Salida. The Boy's Market, I think it was called. And then, of course, where oh, up “F” St. where the T-shirt place is and then next-door, that was also a grocery store until not too long ago, actually.
KB: Mm The Downtown? Yeah.
GP: And, let's see what, oh, then there was a children's store, a very small store, which is, it's turned hands so many times, I don't even know what's in there now. and they had, she had very nice clothes. And there was a men's store on the corner of “F”,“F” and First. And Wagner's Drug Store across the street. And then there was Salida Drug , which is on the alley, on the same side as Wagner's. And, Sharpe's which was between the two, and which was a woman's clothing store. And then, Gambles, where it is now, and then there was Cady's Hardware.
KB: (Verified spelling of Cady)
GP: And then, on across from where the bakery is now, across the alley from where the bakery is now, there was Patterson Hardware Store, when we first came here. And then there, down on lower “F” St., there was a big dry goods store. Seems like Fitzgerald, it was a, that's not right, can't remember…. Doveton's, I think it was Doveton's. And there was a liquor store on the corner of First and “F”. And I can't remember what was in the art store across the street. There were quite a few liquor stores and bars in downtown. And, cause I remember one time I had to deliver papers for Mark, cause he was sick, and the other kids had sports and things. And he delivered the downtown area. And it was the first time I realized that people drank before 5 o'clock in the evening, and danced. And here I let this little kid go down there.
KB: Were there any interesting characters that you recall that, you know, were in town, or just interesting people that you dealt with whether it was you know, through commerce or friends, or….?
GP: Well, I'm trying to think. Dick and Betsy Law, they lived next door to us, and they had Law Printing. And, but they were retired when we moved here and, and after he died well she, and, and, they were very interesting people. I'm trying to think……
KB: Um huh. I mean politically… ahmm?
GP: I wasn't too political then.
KB: Not then, oh. Well, that has changed.
GP: well things kind of, I do remember that, one thing I remember about the streets of Salida, they were much better then they are now.
KB: In what way?
GP: They, in that they were kept….they were well…..
KB: Maintained?
GP: Maintained. And the other thing I remember was when Leonard Post become I think he was just on the police force, I don't think he was head of the police force. That he came around and you were to fix you sidewalks if they weren't proper and that type of thing. And, and, then we got the leash law. That was a big thing in Salida when they got the leash law. it was almost revoked. I can remember I had a cousin that she and her husband came here, worked for West Central Mental Health, and they took the newspaper, and they lived in Kansas City where he got his doctorate. Anyway, it was nothing to have a murder within a few blocks of where they lived, and the big thing here was the leash law.
KB: Real different, living in a small town. Did you know or every have any connection with Laura Evans, I think, or know of any of her family?
GP: No. I, I did know some of her family vaguely, but I, I really don't remember their names. And I do think one of my interviews will maybe enlighten us.
KB: Oh, well that's good. So is there anything else you want to impart to us about life in Salida?
GP: Well, I guess we didn't have a stoplight then. And, we didn't have any four way stops. It was always, coming from Climax to Buena Vista to Salida in the spring was just like night and day because it just got greener and greener. And, Salida had beautiful trees and beautiful lawns. And people really kept their places up really nice, for the most part, in Salida.
I always felt that they did. I might say we had a taxi too, for awhile. Because I always walked to work and I know it quit at midnight, cause sometimes when I worked from 3-11, I didn't get off by then. But I sometimes took the cab home if I got home, got off before midnight. And that was nice, because sometimes transportation is a problem here. and the trains were still running then. And, … the depot was still here.
KB: Yes. Well, I want to thank you for your time and energy and thought processing trying to remember all these things that happened in Salida. So, if you have nothing else to add, and I know you will the minute I turn this thing off.
GP: The only thing I have to add is, I would tell anybody to keep notes, because 50 years later you'd really like to know some things that you've forgotten.
KB: Yeah. Well, it sounds like you have a pretty good memory. Thank you.
GP: You're welcome.
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