Catherine Olive (Judge) Hayden
- born July 7, 1935
- at 738 G St., Salida, Colorado
- delivered by Dr. C. Rex Fuller
- married Donald Clarence Hayden (1-10-1922 - 2-21-1996)
Children:
- Janette Louise Hayden (7-15-1957)
- James Daniel Hayden (3-30-1961)
- Mary Pauline Hayden (7-4-1966)
Father:
- Theodore James Judge, Sr.
- born October 13, 1901
- in Granet, Montana
Mother:
- Nellie Edith Starbuck
- born June 26, 1905
- in Mountain Grove, Missouri
interviewed October 2, 2003 by Beth Smith
Transcribed by Phyllis Smoak
BETH SMITH: Well good morning. This is Beth Smith. I'm interviewing Catherine Hayden, and we're up at the Buena Vista Golf Course this morning where she lives. And we're going to talk about Catherine's life in Salida and surrounding areas.
Alright Catherine, can you start back with your parents?
CATHERINE HAYDEN: I'm going to say, I'll start off with my name: CATHERINE
OLIVE JUDGE. And I was born July 7th, 1935 at 738 “G” St., Salida Colorado. Dr. C. Rex Fuller was the doctor. People used to be born at home a lot. my father's name was Theodore James Judge, Sr. He was born Oct. 13, 1901 in Granite, Montana.
BETH SMITH: What did he do for a living?
CATHERINE HAYDEN: Well, he did several things. his stepfather….. well they had first moved to Salt Lake City and his parents divorced. An, so then he had a stepfather and they first moved ...(to) Cripple Creek/Victor. And his, his broth who was just a baby at the time pulled , see this was after 1911, he pulled names out of a hat as to what town they were going to move to, so anyway the town was Salida. So they moved to Salida and the parents opened, ah Café. And it became the best Café in town.
B. S.: Where was that Café?
C.H.: This is next……. they also had a butcher shop. The butcher shop is where First St. Café is right now and the restaurant was next door. And they lived upstairs over the restaurant. And, so anyway, he became a cook. And then he well he only, well I don't remember if he went to 9th or 10th grade in High School. So then he, well of course he learned math or whatever in school at that time. And then he went over to, well during the depression, or before, see I don't know for sure just which way it was, well anyway he worked as a Steward at the Elks Club. He was an Elks member and so he, during the depression he worked there. And then also he started repairing radios, and he worked for Les Lippard who was the electrician in the town. And then he became the City Council person. (is that correct? politically correct?) But anyway, Ralph Rearden who was City Clerk, kinda wanted to do something else, so my Dad became the City Clerk. And then he was, I don't know for sure, oh I guess it was 1942 he was elected City Clerk and was City Clerk from 1942 to 1969 when he retired.
B.S.: Good. Now how about your mother?
C.H.: Well, my mother's Nellie Edith Starbuck. She was born June 26, 1905 in Mountain Grove, Missouri. And her family came to Colorado – we always thought she came in a covered wagon, she was pretty upset about that – she came on the train. But she got to Salida and they went by wagon over to San Luis Valley somewhere, I'm not just really sure. Her grandfather was Ennis Starbuck and he was a preach Baptist preacher over in San Luis Valley. But, anyway, then they moved back over to Salida, did I mention she was 6 years old, right about 6 years old, they moved back to Salida. And, her uncle, Seth Starbuck was the dairy farmer here. So then, and her father was not a good person, and he did this and he did that, and then he abandoned the family in 1924. So my grandmother Sadie Starbuck had quite a hard time raising the kids. But, of course there was 20 years difference between my mother maybe my Uncle Seth and the youngest child. So there, the older children helped raise the younger kids. And, my mother worked as a waitress there at Burns Café, which was my Dad's folks' café. So that's how come they got together and got married and they started their family.
B.S.: How many children did they have?
C.H.: They had six children.
B.S.: can you give me their names?
C.H.: Irene Marie – she was born May 8, 1929. She was born at my grandmother's
house. Theodore James Jr. – 9/16/30. He was born at the hospital. And then, Edith Mae was born Oct. 7, 1933. And, I think she was born at my grandmother's house. Josephine, well see, well I was born, and then Josephine Ruth, she was born June 9, 1937 at 738 “G”, and Doris Joan born May 11, 1939 at 738 “G” St. And, after my Moth well after my brother died actually, my Mother died in 1997 and my broth Theodore, died in 1998, and he never married, so then we sold the house in 1998. Otherwise we…, that'd been owned for many years.
B.S.: That's great.
C.H.: So where else do we look?
B.S.: Well, let's go back to your childhood. You were living there on “G” St., and what'd you do for fun?
C.H.: Oh ye what we did for fun. we did real, real, real ah tame things. One of our favorite things to do was after the, well the streets used to be dirt, and, then after we got the curb and gutter we liked to put twigs in the water that would come down from the rain and watch the twigs go down to 7th St. where there was a drain in it. And, of course the drain's still there. But it was fun to watch twigs go down the drain.
B.S.: Sure, kids still do that.
C.H.: And, ah then there used to be a girl that ah would take cows from down in the addition, milk cows down in the addition, and she would drive them across 7th St. over to the pasture that's on beyond where Longfellow school is.
B.S.: Now what do you mean by the addition? I don't know what that is.
C.H.: The addition is Chilcott – all those other named streets down there.
B.S.: Is that between Salida and the river?
C.H.: No. Well…..
B.S.: Cathy brought out a map of streets of Salida.
C.H.: OK, the addition is Park Ave, Dodge St., Maxwell, Chilcott, Nichols, Illinois, State St, Milford, Teller, Blake, Palm Hunt, Vine, Walnut and Oak St. That's the addition.
B.S.: I see.
C.H.: I mean, but it's my mother always said that that's how those streets run is true with the world with North and South. The rest of us are always crooked, we aren't North and South.
B.S.: That's right. I understand that the roads…….
C.H.: You truck down there and you have to go crooked to get to those other streets.
B.S.: I understood that they, they came out in a fan from the railroad station.
C.H.: Right. It was, it was straight out from Tenderfoot.
B.S.: So, she drove the cows down to the pasture next to Longfellow school?
C.H.: Uh huh. And then, Longfellow school used to be a block square. It was on “H” St., from 7th to 8th. It was “H” to “I”, 7th to 8th. And there used to be on 7th St., a ditch that had lots of water. 'Cause like I say that's where we saw our twigs disappear. And there used to be huge cottonwood trees there. And they were so much fun, to just be under the trees, play under the cottonwood, play under the cottonwood trees and jump the ditch. And then of course when people got to thinking, well then that's a dangerous thing for children to do, so they got rid of the ditch, they got rid of the trees and it's hot, a very hot place to play. Well, anyway you don't have a ditch there anymore. d to be so much fun to play under the cotton wood trees and jump the ditch.
B.S.: And how about your schooling?
C.H.: all I remember mostly about the school is that it was, it was just the friends that were there. I don't really even remember about school anything, except for, I was not good in spelling. And in the 4th grade Mrs. Holman put me and several other kids in the dumb bunny room. But, she taught us how to read, and I've enjoyed reading all the rest of my life.
B.S.: Wonderful.
C.H.: But I thought, well gee, those other kids were kinda lucky doing something else while we were being taught to read, but it was very good, good thing to have.
B.S.: Good for you. And you went on to Jr. High?
C.H.: And, went to Jr. High. And then, of course, when we went to Jr. High we got to see the kids that had been over at McCray and all of those other well the Catholic school and the country schools. We all got to know all these other kids.
B.S.: Was it called Kessner Jr. High at that time?
C.H.: Oh yea. Yea it was Kessner Jr. High ever since it was built.
B.S.: And then I suppose you went on to Salida High School?
C.H.: Went to Salida High School. And, then, well I don't know, we had a very good class. Well we had lots more kids when we were freshman than when we graduated. We had 58 when we graduated in 1953.
B.S.: Al right. What did you do when you got out of High School.
C.H.: Well, I didn't know what to do. So, I knew I was, you know, there's no way to have any money to go to college or anything, so I didn't even think about it. But anyway, I got a job at ah…well the first job though, forgot about it I worked at the Chamber of Commerce typing letters, cause that was before computer, copy machines. So I typed letters. And then well that was just a temporary job, I knew that when I took it. And then I got a job at Hay Studio, working for Miss Helen Hanks. And well what you just wait on customers. And then she kinda taught me how to retouch negatives, because the negatives, the film wasn't too good in those days and there were little white spots on the film that had to be filled in, you know, for the portraits.
B.S.: That was a photography studio then.
C.H.: Right. And then of course she did all of the developing ah film, the negatives and making the prints. But, she never did teach me how to do that. But then I guess she always figured out it was a much faster job to do it herself. So anyway, Theresa Venturo was the other clerk. And, I guess it was in January, well, maybe later than that, March or April of 1954 she sold the business to the Roy Morris's. And then, they didn't have, you know, since they were both were going to work they just needed the one clerk, so then I didn't have a job anymore. So then a job opening came through for the Farmers Home Administration, USDA. So I worked as a clerk typist for the Farmers Home Administration for, see, 1954 through, 1958 maybe, I can't remember for sure. 'Cause, I had gotten married and had a daughter and she was being babysit by my sister Irene. And, got to thinking that I should be home with my own babies. So.
B.S.: Well, you, you married Don Hayden.
C.H.: Ye I married Don, Don Hayden. Donald C. Hayden. He was also born in Salida, January 10, 1922. And so he was 13 1/2 years older than I was. But he lived down at 343 Blake St. And, he had one of those cow, milk cows that I told you about that was being herded over to pasture land. And those were, I mean nice, tame, smart cows, they just knew to just keep on a walking, and the girl just kept a herding them.
B.S.: Can you tell us something about his background, his family?
C.H.: his Mother was Frances Lee Norman, and she was a school teacher. And she had taught down at Coaldale where she met my Father-In-Law, Clarence James Hayden. he was born at Coaldale Co in 1894. And, he, his ah parents had ah homesteaded there in 1882, the ranch there at Coaldale.
B.S.: Is that what is called Hayden Valley now?
C.H.: Well, it's Pleasant Valley.
B.S.: Oh, Pleasant Valley.
C.H.: But, it's Hayden pass, Hayden pass at Hayden creek.
B.S.: Those are all named after……
C.H.: Well, one of them was by, oh I can't think of that guys, surveyors, whose last name was Hayden. See, he was named for the Pass, and my husband, … the other for the Creek. But, my Mother-In-Law was born, well on a farm, near Wheeling Missouri. And, ah she was born January 11, 1899. And her Mother died in, well she had a sister Ruby and then, my mother-in-law had a sister Ruby and a brother Stanley, H. Stanley Norman. But their mother died when Stanley was 7 months old. She died from complication of childbirth. So then, an Aunt, Anna Johnston helped raise the children. And her father's name was Elmer I. Norman. And he had tuberculosis. So he moved to Canon City, because of the tuberculosis. So that's why my mother-in-law went to school, well graduated from Canon City High Schools. And then she went to Greeley for her education
B.S.: And she was a teacher.
C.H.: And she became a teacher. So anyway, that's how come she got to Coaldale. And then she moved on up to Salida and taught in McCray school. And then of course, when McCray school was torn down to be the land for the Post Office, then she was transferred over to Longfellow school. And she taught over there, ….I believe she Jeannette, my oldest daughter went to school at Longfellow, and I think she just made 1st or 2nd grade before my mother-in-law retired.
B.S.: Well, Let's talk about your kids. You and Don had three children?
C.H.: We had three children. Jannette Louise, born July 15, 1957. And that happened to be her grandfather Hayden's birthday, July 15, 19…. Well, of course his 1894. And then James Daniel was born in March 30th, 1961, which was a year after his grandfather Clarence Hayden had died. And, what's strange is that two of my grandchildren were born on March 25th, a year, well the same day that their grandfather died, their great grandfather died. Daniel, Daniel James Hayden was born in Salida, March 25th1984. And then Angel Leigh Arellano was born March 25th, 1986. So, it's, I thought that was kinda strange. Different.
B.S.: And, where are your children now?
C.H.: And, Janette still lives in Salida. She's working as a bartender at the Elks Club, like her grandfather did. And, Mary lives at Monroe, Wisconsin. And she has the four children. But, they, ah the boys, Daniel, Clayton and Dustin were all born at Salida Hospital. And, but their daughter, Amber Dawn, was born in Monroe, Wisconsin. And she's now eleven, going on twelve.
B.S.: That's a nice family. Let's go back to Salida that you remember when you were growing up and living there for how many years?
C.H.: Well, and talking about simple pleasures, I thought I could show you, the Presbyterian Church used to be on the corner of 3rd and “F” St. And it used to be a lot of fun to, to go up their stairs. They were on the corner. I don't see the picture right away, of course. But, anyway, we went up the 3rd street side and down the “F” street side, and it was just up and down and up and down. We maybe, maybe made two or three trips going up and down. But we were, where we was headed was down to Woolworth, because that was the five, five & dime store, that was the only place in town to, for us to spend our money. And, that's really about the only place in town that I, I remember going. But, then, on 3rd & “F” street, on the catty-corner from the church was the Salida fishpond. And they used, in the summer time they had great big, huge fish in the fishpond. And, then of course over the years and whatnot the cement cracked and wouldn't hold water anymore, so then they demolished it. And now that's where the Senior Citizen Center is.
B.S.: Now, you're a United Methodist right now. Do you remember anything about that church?
C.H.: No. 'Cause I, until I was 21 years old I was a member of the First Baptist Church which is cattycorner from the Methodist Church, But some of the things I remember there is, ah was the Sunday School teachers would have Easter egg hunts for us in their backyards. And then we would have, Bible Study, not Study, Vacation Bible School. And, our treats were graham crackers and milk. Very low key. And then when we went there we would tie our offerings in the end of our handkerchiefs. I was going to try to find a handkerchief to see if I could remember how to tie a coin in the end, cause of course you don't use handkerchiefs anymore, it's always kleenex.
B.S.: Right. Are there any particular characters you remember in, living in town, maybe you were a little older then, after you were married perhaps? Any people that out, stood out?
C.H.: Joe Perry. He was a city employee. And, he drove the water wagon to keep the dust down on the dirt streets. And then later on, well of course, I imagine he did the grader all the time, you know, to get the snow of the streets and whatnot. We always heard Joe Perry coming by, we would run out to the front to wave at Joe Perry. He was lots of fun. And then one time or other I don't know why, well of course my Dad was City Clerk, and so then they were cleaning the reservoir out there on Little River where they take all the Christmas trees now to, to dump. They were cleaning the reservoir and we got to go out and watch them clean the reservoir. Course now, I don't know, it wasn't covered at that time, so of course now it is covered.
B.S.: When did you go to work for the city?
C.H.: I went to work at the city in 1977, Oct. 1st, as utility billing clerk and deputy city clerk. So I just have been…, see that was 26 years ago, and then I worked for 17 years and I retired on Sept. 30th, 1994. It was exactly 17 years.
B.S.: Well, with your connections to the city, then do you remember anything particular about the growth of the city, changes?
C.H.: Well, just as I was getting ready to, well I guess a couple years before I retired, we were going to computers. Computer this and computer that, and, it was a chore. I think Tony Gentile, who was the City Clerk, decided to retire because they were putting the General Ledger on computers and sine he'd been doing the bookwork all the time, he knew what his balance was. He was in balance with his books, and with the computer he just never trusted it. They said “well this is, this is your balance” and he says, “I can't see it, I don't think so.”
B.S.: Is that when you quit the job?
C.H.: So then I, I only worked another, well he retired in March and I retired in September.
B.S.: I see. Who do you think was an outstanding Mayor?
C.H.: Well of course, Ed Touber, but before him was Fenton J. Doveton. He was the, … well he was a merchant downtown. He had several stores. He had the Red Front Store, and then I think the Red Front Store became Doveton's Store. That's where Hot Shots is right now.
B.S.: Yeah.
C.H.: But, ah he was just a really good man. But anyway, of course Ed Touber was great.
B.S.: He was a Mayor for many years, wasn't he?
C.H.: Ye He was there for I don't know how many years. But, he was Mayor before my Dad retired, so that ah had to be before 1969. Maybe it was back in 1966 or so, I mean, but it was in there somewhere.
B.S.: Do you remember when they put the “S” up on “S” Mountain?
C.H.: Well, no I don't because it was before my time. my Aunt Alma and Aunt Lucille, Delong's, my Aunt Alma Starbuck Lake and Lucille Burns DeLong's graduating class had something to do about getting that up.
B.S.: About when?
C.H.: Well, I don't know. Virginia Jay was in that class, and you'd have to go ask her. But, It was back then.
B.S.: OK. Now the hot springs pool is something that is ah really nice for Salida. Do you remember anything about that?
C.H.: Oh yes. we used to ah take swimming lessons there. Mac McPhetres, I don't know if I spoke about him before. But he was kind of the summer recreation person. He was ah school teach but he was the summer recreation. And he taught us all how to swim and it was wonderful. And there used to be a little train that went around the track and we used to play, go on that. Not to often cause it cost money. But we always had to go up over the tracks, you know, when we walked to the school, to the swimming pool. But he also took us on hikes up the red rocks and that was a lot of fun. But we didn't know about being politically correct then. We left our pop bottles and our paper sacks and whatnot up there on that beautiful sand pile that's up there. It was so much fun playing in that. And then of course years later I saw that sand pile, it was not nearly as long and as big as what I remember its being.
B.S.: Alright, now where is that, red rocks?
C.H.: Well, red rocks; that's another thing. When we were in Camp Fire Camp, Camp Fire Girls, we went to red rocks to hike. And you, we went across the bridge at the end of “D” St., and under the RR tracks and up the gully to go to red rocks. And then, well you could either do that or go on up over to Tenderfoot. But it, it depended on which hike you were on, if you were going to Tenderfoot, then you went over Tenderfoot, but we usually went up to red rocks, cause that, that just seemed ,to be so much fun.
B.S.: Now, you talk about the Girl Scouts…..
C.H.: Camp Fire Girls.
B.S.: Oh, OK, Pardon me.
C.H.: No, I never belonged to Girl Scouts.
B.S.: Ok. What did you do with them?
C.H.: Well, we had meetings and we learned how to do projects, I guess kinda like 4-H now or something or other. But, we, ah we had WO HE LO, that's for Work Health and Love. But, then it was all just on Indian type of things. Then we went to Camp Fire Camp, well, then we did all kinds of little projects.
B.S.: Where was the Camp?
C.H.: It was up at Poncha Hot Springs. And then I guess I told you before we started taping,, about the swimming pool there. It had a great big huge wooden shack over it. And, it quite mysterious, with lots well, quaint type a things. But it had a pipe over the top that dribbled water down, like I guess it does at the new swimming pool, I don't, haven't really been in to see that. But, it was hot water. And, ah now, there used to be a real big log in there, that you'd try to get on, but since it had been in the water it got kinda slimy or slick or whatever you couldn't get up on that log. It was too slick. And, then, now they tore it all down and it's just a hole in the ground. And another thing about Camp Fire Camp was, we had really nice restrooms, but it was hot water that went through the toilets, and that was just kind of strange feeling when you sat down on the toilets. But then down at Ajo, Arizona in a gas station we stopped at, there was a toilet that had that hot water in it. And that's the first time, and only time that I've ever had hot water. So. Oh, and then when we were up there well, then we learned the name of the peaks, cause you can see all the peaks all around, from there. So a course, I got to, sometimes, well I didn't have good eyesight, I didn't wear glasses at the time, so I learned the directions., that Buffalo peaks is there, Shavano's over here, and whatever's over there. But, so then, when you come up 291 and turn that's about the best view you can get of Buffalo Peaks.
B.S.: Yeah it is. When you got a little old was there any other organization you belonged to?
C.H.: Well, when I was, married Don, I joined the Methodist church and Dorothy Aude, who is now Dorothy Purdy, invited me to United Methodist Women, which was Woman's Society of Christian Service at that time – WSCS. And so I started there and I belonged to the Wesleyan Circle. And I belonged to that for many years until, that met at night, so I belonged there for many, many years. And then later on I belonged to the League of Women Voters, when we, when you first started that. And, then … I think that was it.
B.S.: What about other organizations in town that other people were interested in?
C.H.: Well, my Dad was an Elk member for many, many years. He was Exalted Ruler in 1929, and he went to Chicago. And, I think when he was there, his step-sister was calling to want to know if he wanted to come to Arizona and, and work in the restaurant with them down there in Wickenburg, Arizona. He decided not to.
B.S.: Do remember any Ku-Klux-Klan organization?
C.H.: No. Just from what I have heard in more recent years. I never knew anything at all about that. And then of course there was an Odd Fellows and Rebecca's. I did become a Rebecca, but not, I was a paying member but not, not a very good. But, my Dad was an Odd Fellow, and he would cook Oyster stew for after Lodge. And, so then I learned that fresh oysters are only fresh in the months that have an “R” in them. And if you don't they're not fresh, or you can't get them. I guess you could now, I mean, since things have changed so much. There used to be “lettuce sheds” down there by where, First St, First and “G” I guess. But, ah the Farmers around Salida used to grow a lot of lettuce and then they would, ah I don't know for sure where they get all the ice, but they would put all the ice on them and ship them out to New York, on the trains. Oh, that's another think I wanted to tell you about. when you wanted to mail a letter in olden days, you ah went down to the, behind the depot there, that has since been torn down, and ah you mailed your letter whether you wanted it to go East, the box that said EAST or the box that said WEST. And the, it would be put on the train and there was a mail post, post office on the train and they would cancel your letter and get it sent off to where it needed to go.
And then, Ethel Purdom used to work for the, she was a character too, she was worked for the Society Editor for the MOUNTAIN MAIL, or SALIDA DAILY RECORD whatever it used to be known as, but anyway maybe it was the MOUNTAIN MAIL. But, she would go down to see who was getting off of the train and who was getting on the train and where they were going, and who they were gonna see. And we had a nice society page and people knew where people were going. And it used to be that she would call, call you up and say, she wouldn't even say who she was, she'd just start talking and you knew who it was, it was Ethel Purdom. Cause she did have that distinctive voice. And, well, she was another person that was kinda related to my husband's family. She was,.. he had a, cousin Harold Runyon and the Frazee's, 'cause Ethel Purdom was a Frazee and she was related to, some way or other to the Runyon's. So, anytime anything about the Hayden's came up she would put it in the newspaper. Cause they, everybody from Coaldale, she would always see to it that it was in the newspaper.
B.S.: She worked for the paper for a long time didn't she?
C.H.: Oh ye just a very long time. And my best friend was Kathleen O'Connel and she, her father John M. O'Connell had owned the newspaper. And one of the fun things that she showed me was well, I went with her on her paper routes and to collect money and whatnot, but anyway one of her jobs at the MAIL was doing piecework. And, they had this press that you put the stuff in and then it would go in and then you'd come back and you'd take it out and put that in and it would go in, and then….
B.S.: Each paper had to be handled separately
C.H.: Yeah, it was separate. So, it was lots of fun to do, watch, beings that, 'cause, I mean you had to have good eye hand coordination to get, get that hand press going.
But, I wanted to tell about one of the fascinating…. one of the most fascinating things I ever saw in my life was when we were on the, went to my Mother's cousin's farm, Harry Smyth. And there farm was between County Road, Highway 291 and Highway 285. They had raised milk cows and they had a milk separator. And that's the most fascinating thing I ever saw in my life, was the cream comes out here and the milk goes over there.
B.S.: About what year was that?
C.H.: Well, it had to be before I was 10. six or seven,… six or seven. And they also had ah apple press. And, got to see them make apple cider. And they didn't clean or wash the apples off or anything, they just got them in their barrels, or bushel baskets and poured them in, stems and all, skin, everything in the press and out comes the juice. That was fun. ……… I can't think of much of anything else except for that we used to have a lot of vacant lots, and we always cut across them to save going around the corner. There used to be, my grandmother used to live at 824 “D” St, and that's up close to the High School, and then there was the Bergners lived on the corn and then there was this big vacant lot and then my Grandmother's house. Anyway, we would come across 8th St. and cut through a little bit of the alley and through that lot and on to school instead of going down to Mr. Bergners corner and up.
B.S.: When you were in school were there any favorite teachers you liked particularly?
C.H.: Oh, well,…. course I liked Mr. Rouse. He taught bookkeeping and I just loved bookkeeping. And I, I had to quit, I was gonna, you know take kind of a secretarial course, but I could not spell, so I just could not take shorthand. I just couldn't do it. But I liked typing and bookkeeping. And, so then, instead of that shorthand I took Biology and I got A's in Biology because it was a interesting subject to me. And so, Tony Delmonico taught that. He was the Coach. But, oh, let's see. Joe Soles. Everybody had stories about Joe Soles, but to me he was just the Math, the Math teacher. But, I took general math, I didn't take the higher math. But the so many of the boys, especially the class of 1951 took the math. And they all were just super at math because of the higher learning and Joe Soles was a good teacher for, for the higher math. And then, I had Miss Ruby McKenna, my 7th grade Math teacher. And, so when I got to know her in the Methodist church it was hard to not call h Miss McKenna, because I always knew her as Miss McKenna. And then let's see,…… well, and then Frances Rouse, she was the Math teacher for the 8th grade and she was also the girl's PE teacher. And, she was lots of fun. And she, course her husband then was Dean Rouse, who was the Commercial teacher. But we enjoyed Mrs. Rouse. They never had any children, so I guess our class of girls, or something or other, my friend Phyllis Mize and I and well some of the other girls that took Girls Athletic Association, they were kind of more her family. So, I can remember we went over to Monte Vista one time, and it was in the winter and coming back, well, we had snow, snow on the road you know, that wasn't there in the morning when we went over. And, I seemed to be the only one that knew how to put on chains. So I put on chairs. But, we got home OK. But she did have chains so we could put em on.
B.S.: When I think about downtown Salida, what businesses do you remember from way back when?
C.H.: Well, it used to be Crews Beggs, and Everybody's, and Lou's Candy Kitchen and 1st National Bank, they were on, on the left side. And on the right side was Koster and then B&C (Budd & Cooper),… I don't know what you'd call B&C, store I guess, I mean, if you, it was kind of a clothing store, but they could find most anything you needed to have. If you wanted didn't want this style well they could find you that style. And then there was the Isis Theater that I was in only once. And, see what's the next store. …… Ed Finn had it, Ed Finn and his Aunt. And then the Golden Rule, then the flower store. Ned's Shoe Repair, and McDonald's Store. McDonald's was a clothing store also. And they had those money changers that went up the, the cord and over to the bookkeeper and back over and down with your change. I don't know what that's called. And then we had the filling station on the corner. Bob Kurtz had it, and I guess, when I can remember about it, but other people said Chet Rand had the Conoco store there.
B.S.: What banks were in town?
C.H.: What?
B.S.: What banks were in town?
C.H.: First National Bank. then, ah First National used to be across the street at one time, and there used to be a Chaffee County Bank a long time ago. But when I was growing up there was one bank. The Building and Loan was down “F”, on down “F” St. it was Boy's Market, then Woolworth, oh yeah, Woolworth was a lot of fun. And then Salida Building and Loan. And then Patterson Hardware, and then the Bakery , and then another little shop that I don't remember what it was, and then Mode'o'Day, and then the men, oh, no, there was a restaurant and then the men's store. But, at the Salida Building and Loan, you, you put your money in there and you saved money. You didn't write checks on it and not save money. So, but that was, you know, just banking at 1st National Bank and the savings at Building and Loan
B.S.: Now, what do you ah think has been some of the significant changes in the whole town?
C.H.: That there aren't any variety stores down town. There aren't any variety, any place like, well we, I forgot about Gilberts, it was on up there by Louis' Candy Kitchen. Gilbert's Dress Shop. And I bought almost all my clothes there. If I didn't buy them there I bought them down, down in the next block at Mrs. Sharpe's. But, and the other day I had on clothes that everything I had on was made in the United States. US of A. Every single thing. And I, I can't say well, let's see, this was.
B.S.: No more.
C.H.: No more. Things aren't made in the United States.
B.S.: Can you remember in WW II or some of the other wars that, what happened in Salida?
C.H.: Well WW II, my Uncle Albert Starbuck was in Germany. And, when we'd get letters from him we'd get out our Atlas and we would try to find where he was on the map. And, that's about all. He was the only one that was over seas. And, my Uncle Arthur Starbuck, he was in the Army, but he was down in Texas, at a hospital, doing something, I don't really remember about it.
B.S.: We're there any organizations in Salida?
C.H.: Oh yeah but then, see, I, I didn't know about them.
B.S.: You were a bit too young.
C.H.: I was too young for that. But, they, my husband got letters, cigarettes from well somebody, USO or somebody that they had. But, what I remember about the war is the blowing the whistles and whatnot, around town, and bells ringing saying that the war was over. See, then I was ten years old at that time. So I don't really remember much about. That they did have all of the people's names on the wall there at oh, it was Alexander Drug Store at the time, but it's Lallier's Pharmacy. He has a picture inside that shows all the names on there.
B.S.: now, there was a, a lot of epidemics, of flu, or polio and so on. was Salida affected?
C.H.: Yes, it was. But, that was of course, well the worst one there in 1918. my, Aunt, Great Aunt and Great Uncle, Uncle Seth Starbuck and Martha Starbuck, they lost three children in three days.
B.S.: From?
C.H.: From the 1918 flu. the oldest boy and the two youngest children that were twins. They lost those three. Ennis, Martha and Matthew, I believe it was Matthew. And then my Mother had a sister die at, right about that time, but she died from Pneumonia.
B.S.: Polio in 1950's, or something.
C.H.: All I remember about that is they closed the swimming pool. We couldn't go swimming. And, that wasn't really too hard to take, you know. We just did our neighborhood games and whatnot. We used to play Ollie-Ollie Oxen-Free and Kick-The-Can. Very simple pleasures.
B.S.: Well, you've really filled me in on a lot of history in Salida. I hope it's going to help the Library too. And, thank you very much for, for helping us out.
C.H.: Well, thank you very much.
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